Mon 25 Jun 2007
Top Serious Discussion: Comments Wanted!
Posted by steve under Uncategorized
[14] Comments
I’ve been thinking about how cheap alleycats always are and how expensive real races tend to be. An alleycat is what, five bucks at the max, unless it’s one of the larger CMWC or NACCC events, right? And there’s always a decent payout for the top finishers right?
But go to any road, track, or mountain race and the fees are easily triple, and that’s without buying a one day license or the yearly cost of a USCF license, which runs 60 bucks itself. Also, until you start racing with the 3s and 2s and 1s, there’s no payout. So you show up to the track and want to race Cat 5 but don’t have a license: you need to drop 10 dollars for a license and 15 dollars for your race fees. What does that 25 dollars get you? A lot of punishment and maybe being able to say “Well, I almost placed top 3 in the omnium.” But people do it all the time. It’s fun, it makes you a stronger rider, blah blah, all that kind of thing.
So at what point does any alleycat become too expensive? This comment from Justin sort of gets to the point – “I’ve heard some complaints about the whole $10 thing, but don’t fret. I don’t expect you to have to spend all ten of your precious dollars, but want to make sure that you have enough money to complete the race objectives. Also, remember that its for charity, so suck it up, there will be free PBR at the finish damnit!”
How much is too much to pay for a race? On that note, do people prefer cash prizes or actual stuff? Why? If any alleycat cost say, 10 dollars instead of 5, should the money go towards buying actual prizes, larger purses for the winners, payouts for the top 6 riders or so?
Respond with comments.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:14 pm
I like $5 because it’s cheap enough that there’s no financial excuse not to ride. If there’s a party or free food at the end it’s even a good deal. More than that and it depends. Depends on the audience I guess.
Same thing with difficulty, I think. Do people want hard races or easy ones? A theme or just speed? Etc. Brad Q was saying that races used to go up Mt. Washington all the time until it suddenly because “too hard”.
I think Ted wanted to pool together and throw bigger races. I think it’s a great idea to pick a few big races a year and try to get big sponsorship and really hype it up (though I think doing small races will always happen and is great).
pghalleycat.com (& now the Myspace, thanks to Justin) was supposed to make that easier, but I don’t really know if it has. Maybe a private forum for race planning or something?
June 25th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
I had an idea a while back and your Roubaix reminded me of it since it’s sort the same kind of idea. Since races are always few and far between in the winter months, why not have a giant, all-out year end PGH Championship race, our own version of the WC. Get a whole bunch of people together to plan it, ie. the people who want to throw it, and just sort of have the ballsiest, craziest race possible.
Maybe even get a white jersey with black and yellow bars across the chest for the winner and they get to wear it for the next year to prove their badassness.
June 25th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
Oh, like all next year you have to defend the “black and gold fleece?” Sounds good to me.
June 26th, 2007 at 11:17 am
^^ that sounds like a great idea^^
Additionally, the idea to create a private (not exclusive, just more organized) race planning forum has been tossed around recently. I think its a great idea. The alleycat momentum has really built over the last 2 years and i think it is progressing at a moderate pace. I would like to propose the idea of a race planning commitee that would help to organize events, schedules, checkpoint help, prize contacts, etc. It may be a good step towards throwing larger events, with sponsorship from larger companies, as well as drawing people in from other areas (Maryland, Ohio). I am open to hosting/organizing some kind of a meeting schedule, maybe bi-monthly to discuss opportunities for future events. While this may be difficult due to everyone’s schedules outside the world of bikes, I think we could manage to put something together. Any thoughts?
June 26th, 2007 at 11:24 am
Bi-monthly meetings sound like they might be hard. Though I guess we could just hold them somewhere people go normally, like the moose/BBT/Gooski’s or something.
If you need anything in terms of the site or additions, let me know. I could probably get forums (ala Bike pgh) or a wiki set-up, though not until the bike fest madness if over.
As for planning races, I think we need one the weekend of August 11th: Steve will be back in town, and an old acquaintance is coming to town from San Diego. It’s far enough away we can actually write to companies and ask for stuff. I was originally going to do the “RIDE YR BIKE” alleycat, a race with no theme but the regular alleycat stuff (fast, busy, have to do ridiculous things at check points). But if that’s to be bigger, we might want a better theme.
June 28th, 2007 at 10:54 am
Yes for an alleycat.
Yes for a message board to discuss.
Yes for meetings especially if it’s at a bar and we drink beers.
June 28th, 2007 at 11:24 am
Ok, I’ll work on the message board to discuss after bike fest. Yinz be sure to hold me to that so I don’t get distracted.
June 28th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
Bike companies are usually pretty generous in prize donations (see last year’s Rallycat) as long as you don’t go to the well too often. For the Rallycat, I did no begging whatsoever. It probably helped that the race was part of a bike festival, and I was giving the entry fees to BikePGH, but still–I had a ton of stuff from four companies.
June 29th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
To kinda answer the question of where the money goes for an race (USCF or Other) vs an alleycat, i think it kinda goes like this:
Permit
Insurance
Officials fee
Cops (if needed)
The last one is the biggie. We (the former-former-former UPMC team) used to put on a race in schenly park. it was a pretty sweet circuit, but, it got too expensive to run, and we knew that we couldn’t get away with more than $20/head for a one day/one event fee. The biggest thing was having to pay for the (city-required) police for traffic control and road closings. If you have more than two officers, you also have to have a supervisor (it gets better). It’s like $48/hr for the police, since it’s all OT/off duty work, and the supervisor is even more. crazy. also part of the reason the thrift drug classic got canned. too expensive to run, even with a bajilliooon dollars from sponsers.
June 29th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
$5 always strikes me as being really low for an alleycat (not that I’m complaining)… it’s kind of like doing a (DIY musical) show, where it’s kind of expected that the person setting everything up, wrangling bands, making flyers, etc. is expected to pay out of pocket for all costs and maybe, maybe pay themselves back if the show goes really well. Which is awesome once or twice, but I’d think would get tiring after a while for most people.
I would definitely be willing to pay out more for a. more/better prizes (even if it’s donated, the organizer had to wheedle out of the company) b. more interesting / broad courses (I can imagine what a pain in the ass something like the Rub-A-Dub race was to set up, but those types of courses are so much more fun to me than the standard sprint-to-the-usual-places that reward willingness to run red lights more than navigation or endurance) or c. benefits / charity races.
Speaking of which – if anyone is seriously complaining about $10 for the food bank, and they’re riding a nice bike and going out drinking afterwards, they can suck it.
June 30th, 2007 at 10:50 pm
As far as all the uscf fees. yeah they suck. yeah they are leeches, yeah I paid 180 bucks in licenses this year.
However, if I crash and break my neck, I have insurance. It sucks that this country is such a place that you need insurance or you will be shitted on. However that is the reality and it is nice to know that each weekend or all of last week when im racing my bike, it is one less thing that I need to worry about.
The dudes on the mavic motorcycles with spare wheels and chalkboards giving time splits are worth a few bucks annually as well.
July 1st, 2007 at 12:19 pm
I didn’t want it to sound like I hated the USCF fees and all that, I’ve got no problem paying them for all of the above reasons.
But it’s just the concert kind of argument where I don’t know, people complain about an eight dollar show with 5 bands or something like that.
It’s just that an alleycat is a fucking steal at 5 bucks, and would be at any price up to 10 bucks, but i would guess if someone threw a race with an 8 dollar entry, no one would show up and you’d get people complaining out the ass.
this was more of an observation than anything else.
July 4th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
$5 is too much. I’m quitting the scene. Get a haircut, Justin.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:37 pm
My preference is: no fee, no prizes, as hard as possible.